Lucia Keskin

Full transcript

Home Again – Interview with Lucia Keskin

Introduction

Lucia: Was like, "I wanna move to London. It's happening. Dreams are happening. Let's go make telly."

Matt: Hi, I'm Matt.

Ella: And I'm Ella, and you're listening to Home Again, a podcast by SpareRoom about the places we live.

Matt: We ask our guests to pick three homes and tell us how they've shaped who they are today.

Ella: And who have we got on today, Matt?

Matt: We have Lucia Keskin. She's a comedy actor, writer, performer, known to a lot of people as Chi with a C from YouTube, but she has a fantastic BAFTA-winning sitcom called Things You Should Have Done. There are two series on BBC iPlayer, and a third one due out next year.

Ella: I am obsessed with this series. I think it's so funny, and I'm super interested to talk to Lucia today, or Chi. This is the thing, I think you're not quite sure in the show how much she's drawing from her real life and who she is as a person and how much as a character. So I'm really interested to see which version we sort of get of her today.

Matt: In this kind of comedy, it's easy to presume that they're just playing themselves, and it's never the case, so I'm fascinated to find out a bit more about it. It's gonna be a good one.

Ella: Hi, Lucia.

Lucia: Hello.

Ella: Welcome to the podcast. Actually, Lucia or Chi, which do you prefer? 'Cause I know Chi's more of like a character that you sort of portray as well. Do you find people... Is there a distinction there? Is it a bit of a gray sort of—

Lucia: I've sort of ruined it really, 'cause Chi was just what everyone called me and still does. So it's just now one. It's all blended into one, so I've sort of ruined it. But yeah, Chi is fine.

Ella: Chi. Well, to help us sort of ease into it, we thought we'd crack out some icebreakers.

Lucia: Nice.

Ella: There's some cards in front of you. If you wouldn't mind turning them over, maybe one by one. A bit more of a reveal moment. And yeah, let us know your thoughts.

Lucia: Dinner at the table or in front of the TV? I really much prefer to sit at a sofa in front of the telly. I really don't like sitting at a table to eat. I think it ruins the meal. It's like if you're not fully comfortable, what's the point?

Matt: So would you like advocate for a restaurant where you can go and sit on a sofa to eat your meal?

Lucia: Yeah, I suppose it's different in a restaurant. Like, that is, I mean, it's more understandable, but yeah, I mean, it would be great if there was a place. Like, when I found out about the cinemas you can go to where you can have a full meal, like, that is just the perfect combo I think, depending on if the food's good. You want like the perfect restaurant as well to also do that, but—

Ella: The only thing is, does it depend on the food type? I'm talking like if we're doing a soup situation.

Lucia: Well, I suppose if you're making, when you're making like fajitas, and you're doing it one by one, that's really hard to do on the sofa. You sort of need to do it on the table. But I still do it, I just bring a table to me. So I'm at the... That's what you need. We need like actual sofa dining tables I think.

Matt: Like a slide across platform?

Lucia: Yeah. At sofa height, 'cause when you're sat obviously you're low, and then there's a table that's just down here. But you need like a dining table that comes up to your... well, not neck, but enough to—

Ella: Cover you.

Lucia: That is the issue.

Ella: I think if ever I'm eating on the sofa, I need to like sort of prop up with like pillows and try to get as close to my head as possible.

Lucia: The height is an issue.

Matt: Anybody from IKEA who's listening to this, product line waiting to be made.

Ella: Yeah.

Lucia: Yeah, absolutely. I'd get it.

Matt: Let's have another one.

Lucia: Text first or come round anytime? I like if someone texts first, even if it's just before, just so I can then, you know, make sure everything's perfect. But I'm the type of person that is fine with someone just turning up. But obviously it just makes it more ideal for them if they can tell me they're coming, 'cause then it's like you get the excitement or the dread. You don't have it.

Matt: I have that weird thing of like knowing people are coming at a certain time and then 5, 10 minutes before that I just can't settle. I'm like looking out the window and I'm kind of pacing around the house.

Lucia: Yeah, it's hard, isn't it? It's weird. It's that sort of mix of excitement and then when they get there it's not as fun. You sort of feel like, "Oh, is that it?" It's anticlimactic.

Ella: I think my thing is that I know if I'm at home I'm probably wearing all of my weirdest sort of clothes, just the comfy clothes, and I'm like, I need a bit of a heads up if someone's coming round.

Lucia: Yeah, that's the thing. It's like I'd be fine with someone turning up depending, again, on who it is. But I like, it's mainly for excitement to know, just so I can, you know, get rid of all the cat hair or just do something fun.

Matt: Yeah. Go on, so number three.

Lucia: Shoes on or off at home? I prefer, I mean, at my home absolutely off. But in other people's home, I really don't like to be barefoot. I struggle with like the sensoriness of stranger foot-to-ground feelings. Like when I go to a water park, which I try and avoid, or like a public pool, I try and wear swimming shoes 'cause I hate the feeling of walking where everyone else has walked.

Ella: Are you often wearing shoes without socks, or have you taken it as if you're taking your shoes off, everything?

Lucia: Well, I suppose, yeah, I don't mind so much socks, but it's still sort of another layer towards being barefoot. Like if it was one, I'd definitely choose socks. I'd rather that, but again, I don't like... Like if you stand in something, then you feel like it's sticky. It's just, I wanna go home, you know? I can't carry on.

Matt: You're trusting other people to have cleaned their floors.

Lucia: Yeah. But again, it depends on who you're going to and what the house is like.

Matt: We've got a relatively recent set of friends, and we kind of realised that one of them knew us well enough now 'cause she turns up at our house with her slippers, and she'll take her shoes off, and she'll put her slippers on. And it's like she's realised that that's all right. We've reached that point in friendship now.

Lucia: That's a great thing, yeah. Portable slippers are a great idea.

Ella: I like the fluffy socks with the grips on the bottom.

Lucia: Oh, I love those. They're great.

Ella: Slip them in your bag.

Lucia: Really, really good. Love them.

Ella: How did you find choosing your three places to talk about?

Lucia: One of them was easy, and then I found the others quite hard.

Ella: You said the first one came to you. Was it just sort of an immediate thought and then the other two you had to sit down and think about a lot more?

Lucia: Yeah. Then I was like, "Oh, yeah, no, there are other options." But I think I was trying too hard to think of something better than just, you know, a simple house.

Home 1

Matt: Let's talk about your first house. Yeah. Where's the first place you picked?

Lucia: The first place I picked was my nan and grandad's house, where I sort of grew up. I mean, I'd lived there on and off with my mum, but I sort of grew up with my nan and grandad and my mum, 'cause I just never met my dad.

And yeah, now my nan and grandad aren't here. The house has been sold, but it was such an important house in my whole life that I feel like it was the main house that I know of.

Matt: What were their names, your nan and grandad?

Lucia: Pauline and Brian.

Matt: And you clearly spent a huge amount of time with them.

Lucia: Oh, so much, yeah. Every day I was there growing up. Even when I wasn't living there, it was just after school, straight there.

Ella: And I think, you know, a lot of your love of comedy came from spending time with your grandparents.

Lucia: Yeah, definitely. 'Cause it was watching all the old stuff to the new stuff with them. So it was my favorite thing to do really, was sit and watch it with my grandad, and then my nan would force us to watch musicals as well.

Matt: So you weren't just kind of watching old shows your grandparents knew. You were kind of watching current things and new things and kind of -

Lucia: Yeah, so it was like a whole range of stuff. My grandad, he's the person that found Cunk and showed me that.

Matt: Brilliant.

Lucia: And I was blown away by that, and we loved that together. But we'd watch all the way from like Tony Hancock and the Carry On movies.

Matt: Are there things that you find kind of coming out as you write and think about characters that kind of pick up on bits of that? 'Cause comedy feels like... any art form, you can look at it over time and see how things have changed, but do you find yourself weaving in?

Lucia: Yeah, I think so. Some things you watch and you think, "This isn't as funny as I remember it being." But then there's some things that's just timeless. Like even when I'm writing, I think I'm sort of writing as to what I think my grandad would find funny, and it sort of helps. It's like really annoying that he can't watch it.

Matt: It's really nice to have an audience in your head, somebody you know, rather than just the general public. Yeah. It's like, "Oh, I'm writing to make this person laugh."

Lucia: Exactly, and it's like, I can picture this being what he'd find funny, so therefore, I think it's all right, you know?

Matt: I love the idea that he was introducing new stuff to you and kind of going, "Have you found this? I found this."

Lucia: It was great. It would just be our favorite thing to do is watch telly. So he'd watch all sorts, and I'd then, you know... I didn't wanna watch kids' programs. I wanted to watch what he was watching, which could be anything.

Matt: 'Cause you sort of started out posting stuff on YouTube. Was the idea, "I like comedy, I'm gonna have a go at doing comedy"? Or was it literally just, "I'm gonna do some stuff and see what comes out"?

Lucia: When I was in primary school, I wanted to be a stand-up comedian. But then I had no form of confidence or stage presence whatsoever, so just never. Like, the idea of it was just awful. I just never did that, and then moved on to sort of the idea of doing musical theater, but I didn't have... I wasn't fit enough for that. It's just too much.

Matt: Too much work.

Lucia: Yeah. It's like to dance and move and act at the same time with singing was just... like, the idea is great, but no energy.

So I then just kept coming back to comedy and wanting to do stupid things, and then hated school and anything academic and just thought, "Oh, maybe I'll just do videos and see what happens," 'cause there was nothing else I wanted to do or could do, and that was sort of it.

Ella: Mm. I think we're kind of similar ages, and at that time, YouTube was just sort of becoming what it is now. You know, it's completely sort of changed in the landscape of things, but it was such an era of sketch comedy being a thing and like silly little spoofs of things.

And it's kind of nice as well in your show, like you're saying, you have a lot of references to older comedies as well, and it's kind of this blend of maybe a bit of a new age of comedy, maybe more of that Gen Z YouTube-y style stuff, and also you're referring back to shows like Vicar of Dibley and Catherine Tate and that kind of -

Lucia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's weird. I know that it's mainly aimed towards a young audience, but it's weird because my target demographic is always sort of people from like age 40 to 100. So it's always strange when I hear people be like, "Yeah, no, they're just too old if they don't get it." And I'm like, "No, they're meant to." That's who I'm trying to... it's meant to be a mix of all. But it's definitely fun to have that blend.

Ella: To sort of bring us back to speaking about the house, it's in Broadstairs.

Lucia: Yeah.

Ella: And obviously a lot of your show is set around Thanet. What is it about that place in Kent that obviously resonates enough with you to base your whole sort of show around it?

Lucia: It's just 'cause I grew up there really. If I hadn't grown up there, probably it would've been anywhere. But it is strange. It's quite a small town, so Broadstairs, Margate, and Ramsgate sort of view as just one 'cause they're like five minutes apart, so I sort of grew up in all of them.

I lived at home with my mum in Margate for years. But Broadstairs sort of felt like the main one 'cause it's where I went to school. It was where my nan and grandad were. And yeah, Broadstairs was just like very pretty. It's the pretty one. It's sort of like the one that is nice, whereas, you know, there's dodgy parts of Margate and Ramsgate, as nice as they can be.

Matt: I always get the sense that you get a really interesting mix of people in a seaside town. Like whether you're in Cornwall or like the Northeast, there's just something about seaside communities that are a bit different.

Lucia: It's crazy. There is the most insane, scary people all the way to just, you know, rich, posh people in some areas. It's such a mix of so many characters there in so many different outfits.

Matt: And I kind of guess real rich pickings for an observational writing point of view.

Lucia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the annoying thing is I barely go out, so it's hard to... But when I do, I'm like, "God, there's so much to write, you know, base stuff on here."

Home 2

Ella: So do you wanna speak to us about the second house that you've chosen?

Lucia: Second house I chose was, first of all, I moved out of living with my mum and just got a flat in Ramsgate that I paid for myself in rent.

Ella: And why did you decide to move in the first place?

Lucia: Well, I was doing all of my videos and stuff from my very small bedroom with my mum. But it looked like a hoarded garage full of stuff. It was just costumes, wigs, and my mum was like, "I've got no room. You've got too much stuff."

I wanted to be able to grow and learn how to do basic things without my mum butting in. And so the plan was to move to London, but I was like, "Maybe before I do that, I'd just move out locally and see how that goes first." And so that was why.

Ella: And you moved out on your own?

Lucia: Moved out on my own, yeah. But the plan was to instantly get a dog, which I did, and it was great. But then she died.

Ella: Oh. Sorry.

Lucia: Sorry. It's depressing.

Ella: But do you think that having the dog helped you in that process of moving out?

Lucia: Oh my God, it was amazing. It was so... I mean, it was so weird 'cause when I first got my dog and I lived in this flat, it was terrifying 'cause I was suddenly like responsible for something. And I had like sort of postpartum depression with this dog for like a few weeks, and just now suddenly having responsibility of taking care of your own flat.

But I loved it so much in the end 'cause it was like I could, you know, have my own little life. And my mum was there every day anyway, so it made no difference in terms of feeling like you were on your own. But I just had more space, and yeah, it was a really nice little place.

Matt: Was that time a little bit of the seed of Things You Should Have Done in terms of sort of working out how to be a grownup on your own without -

Lucia: It really was. Yeah, I think so. It was when we were doing the pilot that I was there. So it was like when the pilot got commissioned, when the idea was coming, when I was commuting up to London, and when I found out that we got a series. So yeah, and when we filmed the series.

Ella: Okay, so that was quite a pivotal point in your life anyway for all of that to sort of be happening.

Lucia: Yeah. I was there for about two years, I think.

Matt: And do you find that because the series is very much about that and the character's called Chi, do people sort of presume that it's just you rather than like an exaggerated version of part of you?

Lucia: Yeah. It's really annoying. I really wanted, you know, like acting, so I was really sort of pushing to not have my own name. But I think it just stuck as a sort of... I just liked it. So we used it, and it's really annoying now 'cause people don't think I'm acting or that it's even a scripted program. They think it's a documentary. So it's really, really annoying.

Ella: So to set the record straight, when you went and lived on your own, how did you find that?

Lucia: Then also there are similarities, it's just that it's very, very extreme. But I think I also -

Matt: You didn’t take in your driving instructor then?

Lucia: I didn't have the driving instructor experience that I have in the show, but I did have a really bad lesson where I tried to change gear with the driving instructor's knee and then never took another lesson again. So it's like there are similarities that I had. You know, I didn't know how to use a washing machine, anything like that.

Matt: So it's definitely not a documentary?

Lucia: No.

Matt: Yeah, it's really interesting that time is. I think for a lot of people, particularly before university got so expensive, people would work that stuff out kind of in those three years. And it's like, it's not for everybody, and it also is really expensive now. And you need a point in your life to go like, "All right, well, now I need to sort stuff out. How do I work this stuff out?"

Lucia: Yeah, suddenly it's like, "Oh, suddenly I just have to know how to be a grownup." It's like no one really tells you how to. You just suddenly have to just be one. It's hard.

Ella: Yeah. And as much as you think that you're grown up as well, like I did go and live in halls at uni, and I thought I was... You know, everyone's like, "Wow, you're so independent." And like I remember in my first week ringing my mum being like, "How do I cook? How do I make a bolognese?" I was like, "I've never done this."

Lucia: Yeah, exactly. There's no... It doesn't feel like there's ever an end product from it. Like, I feel like still not really... How do we know when we're actually grown up?

Matt: Yeah, I don't think you do. Well, I think the point I finally realised I was a grownup was when I had a kid, and I was like... I think I was maybe 41 at that point. And like you go, "Okay, I think now."

Lucia: That's probably it.

Matt: It's the point you realise that whatever goes wrong in life, the grownups aren't coming to fix it because you're the grownup since that point, and it's quite scary.

Lucia: Yeah, I can imagine.

Matt: It's really interesting you talk about that period of kind of moving and getting to film the pilot and the series being commissioned and all that happened at the same time. Was that... 'cause I'm really fascinated in this kind of route from YouTube to getting a BBC series commissioned. And obviously it wasn't one then the other, there must have been a quite a slow burn in between, but it's not the typical route into getting a script commission, so it must have been an interesting journey.

Lucia: Yeah, it was a really interesting journey 'cause I don't know how it happened, 'cause my mum was on the edge of her seat worrying that I'd never work because I didn't have any GCSEs and I didn't bother finishing going to school or college. And so it was all just a, well, this is the only thing I want to do, so if it doesn't work out, then there's no other plan.

I mean, I tried everything online. I think I went through a phase of just doing normal, boring YouTube videos to really wacky, too weird stuff. And then it's slowly realising... It was sort of like years doing videos. Even before I left school, I used to do videos and try and make people laugh online, trying, seeing what works, and failing.

When I got a green screen and wigs, realising that is the funnest part, is being other people, and that I could create... I was like, "If I can't be an actor, I'll make myself an actor DIY." And so that's sort of what I tried to do.

And then I got an agent, and when my grandad was dying, I was like, "I just really wanna write something about the grief and things like that." And I said to my agent that I really want to write. At the time, I'd done a video where I'd done a load of sitcoms if they were set during the pandemic, and I think that is sort of one of the things that made production companies get in touch.

And then I ended up meeting with Roughcut, which is our production company, and we just developed the idea together, really, and the BBC seemed to like it.

Matt: Is there a sense of, 'cause you hear this from people all the time, this idea of somebody who's become famous through YouTube or Instagram or TikTok or whatever, a sort of sense of snobbishness about that from other people?

Lucia: Yeah, it's really... I mean, I know that there are YouTubers, and that is what they do, influencers, things like that. But I do find it a sort of patronising term, because it feels like it's just a platform. It's like calling someone a LinkedInner 'cause they're on that. I find it annoying for people that are more creative and are using it as a platform rather than... Fair enough if you're doing lifestyle, you're doing vlogging, that is your stereotypical YouTuber, and that is what you do.

But it is annoying when you're using it as a platform, and you're doing what people are doing on TV, but just on YouTube, which is what I was doing at first. And then you go on something on telly, like a panel show or something, and they say, "Oh, a YouTuber." And then obviously it's fine, but older people just view that as what everyone thinks a stereotypical YouTuber does, and it's like, "Why are they on this?" And it just instantly creates a negative payback. And so in that case, it's very annoying.

Matt: Yeah. And it's sort of in a different... Like, you're talking about wanting to be a stand-up, and stand-up requires a certain kind of willingness to stand in front of a room full of people in a different town every night. But it's the same thing. You're just doing it from where you are and sending it out to them.

Lucia: You can read it if you want, and if not, then you don't have to. I feel like it is becoming that sort of Edinburgh route now, where if you wanna be an actor or a comedian, you go through stand-up to get there, whereas now you can, if you work at it, do it through social media.

Matt: To go and do the Edinburgh thing, you need money behind you to be a stand-up.

Lucia: Yeah. It's definitely a more of a no-risk way of doing it. 'Cause I viewed it as like, what is there to lose except dignity? And you can trial as much as you want out for free 'cause you're just working stuff out, posting it, and filming yourself and posting it. And it's just a really good way of getting yourself out there and learning as you go.

Matt: You strike me as somebody who is pretty comfortable with turning discomfort and things that didn't go the way you expected into something you can laugh at along with other people, which I think is something most people struggle with.

Lucia: I sort of like it when something goes wrong 'cause then you can use it. It's so boring when everything... There's no point in being embarrassed, I think, about things 'cause it's just funny. Like, I'd rather it be funny than it be embarrassing, I suppose, or terrible.

Matt: It's like the thing about being kind to yourself. Like, we're all really hard on ourselves, and you think if somebody else was in this situation, you'd be really kind to them.

Lucia: Exactly, yeah.

Matt: And it's the kind of thing where you flip the thing around and go, "If somebody else had done what I'd just done, I'd be laughing at them."

Lucia: That's exactly it.

Matt: So I should probably laugh at myself, but it's not always easy.

Lucia: Yeah. Learning that is like a key, 'cause it really is true that nothing matters that much.

Home 3

Matt: And then what about the third place you've chosen to chat about? Where's that?

Lucia: Third place was where I decided to move to out of the flat that I'd moved from in Ramsgate where we was doing the show. As soon as I got money, I was like, "I wanna move to London. It's happening. Dreams are happening. Let's go make telly."

And so I decided to move to Leicester Square and paid -

Ella: Wow, so right in the middle of it all, in the action.

Lucia: And paid six months' rent upfront -

Ella: Right.

Lucia: - just with the money that I earned from the show, series one. And had no idea about tax. And so I spent this life just ordering deliveries and Ubers. I Ubered into Fitzrovia still 'cause I hate moving, so it took longer. It was like the one thing that you would use living in Central London is you could walk everywhere. No, I still Ubered. And I didn't go out really. I was still indoors for the six months, so I could have done that in Ramsgate.

Matt: I love that you did the kind of, "I'm gonna go from Broadstairs, I'm gonna go to Ramsgate." It's a bit of an intermediate step before you moved to the heart of the busiest place in the busiest city in the country.

Lucia: Yeah. I had Tom Holland opposite me every night doing his, I think, Romeo and Juliet. It was wild. But at the same time, I did barely make use of it at all.

Ella: I kind of love that though. It kind of feels like you had this moment where all your dreams came true. Like, you've done the show, "I'm gonna move to the big city," and like the idea of almost that childlike innocence of like, "I've made it. I'm gonna order Ubers whenever I want and deliveries whenever - "

Lucia: Just absolute foolery. And then regretting it because I'm like, "Why did I do this? What a stupid thing to do. I'm not working."

Ella: But were you just there for the six months?

Lucia: I was there for six months, and then once I had to start paying monthly again, I think I lasted like three months and was like, "I need to move out a bit." So I moved to Wandsworth, but still managed to find somewhere that was only £100 less than what I was paying for. And yeah, I ended up back in Ramsgate for another year. But now I'm back in London again.

Ella: You clearly liked being in London then.

Lucia: I loved being in London, but I found it hard when I was living alone in London, 'cause you really can go mad, and I felt like I did go mad a few times.

But I realised that it was way cheaper to live in Thanet. And so I went back there and got a mortgage for way cheaper than any rent in London. And then when I got with my boyfriend, I moved in with him about a few months ago now.

Matt: It is nuts how lonely you can feel in a city, particularly if you don't have the routine of a set job where you have to go somewhere and meet people. It's like if you're on your own, you could be surrounded by like 7 million people and still feel a little bit in a bubble.

Lucia: You really do. I mean, I really did go insane 'cause you're just sort of like making stuff up and talking to yourself. And you're like, "Why?" You know, I'm in the middle of London. But I think I thought everyone would be free. I'd be hanging out with Cate Blanchett and just sort of, you know, meeting up with everyone every day 'cause everyone lives in London. But the reality of it is people have kids and jobs, and all my friends are in their late 40s. So it wasn't as dreamy as I thought it would be.

Ella: And also, I mean, you were saying about Thanet, everywhere sort of within like 10 minutes of each other. Coming to London, in theory you think that. But actually, it takes you at least an hour to go anywhere.

Lucia: Yeah. And it's so crowded and busy in the literal tourist area of Leicester Square that it made me become more of a hermit. It was like, "I don't want to go out 'cause I can't bear the crowds."

Matt: Was the move originally 'cause you thought, "I'm making TV now, this is where I need to be"?

Lucia: I was like, "I'm making TV. It's only gonna go up from here. So I may as well move to Leicester Square now 'cause I'll probably be in Knightsbridge by the end of the year." You know? Just keep going.

Matt: You might have hung out with Cate Blanchett in Knightsbridge. You might have got there.

Lucia: Exactly. But obviously then you get there and you're like, "Oh," you know, you're not as motivated every day as you will be, and your work is slow sometimes. So I spiraled into talking to myself instead.

Matt: I think it's really easily done though. When you first get bits of success at anything, you think, "Yeah, I've arrived, I've done it, I'm here."

Lucia: Yeah.

Matt: And then you look back and go, "Okay, that was like step one." There's a whole journey to come yet.

Lucia: It's still slow, and you need to not be an idiot and learn about money for starters. So I'm pleased I did it, 'cause I suppose I did learn a lot about life and what not to do. But it's also fun to get to say that I lived in St Martin's Lane for half a year.

Matt: Well, it ties in with what you were saying before about making videos, and then almost enjoying doing something that didn't work, 'cause you learned something from it, and you go, "Okay, right, now what?" And I think that runs through everything, doesn't it? You have to do things that aren't gonna be the right thing.

Lucia: It was almost like when I was living alone in Ramsgate with my mum with minimal things, I was more motivated and was putting out more things and writing more things to get to where I could have my own flat and live in Leicester Square. And then when I was there, it was almost sort of like less motivating. And that's probably why, again, it felt more anticlimactic, because I wasn't as motivated.

Matt: And kind of through all of those different experiences, like your grandparents' house, and your own place, and London, going back, coming back... What does home mean to you with all those kind of experiences? Is there something that makes home home? Like, is it location? Is it people?

Lucia: Well, I think I used to think it was location and the memories you had in the house. But now I do think, to be cliché, it's sort of the people. Because you make new memories. It's just not the same being in an old house without the person you love or the people you love as it would be being in a new place with the people that you wanna be with.

Matt: Very true. Place does feel really important until the people who you associate with that place aren't in it anymore, and then it just becomes a house.

Lucia: Like for ages when my nan and grandad died, I was sort of like, "We can't let go of the house. No way. No way." And when my mum and my auntie had to sell it, I was like, "Oh, this is so depressing." But then as my cousin was working on it and sort of helped refurbishing it, I was like, "This just isn't the same. They're not here, so it's fine." And at the same time my mum had moved, my auntie had moved, so it was like all of my childhood places that I knew were sort of just suddenly gone.

And I thought I'd find that really, really hard, but it's not 'cause the people are still in... Well, it's the people and they're just in a different box now.

Matt: Yeah. And it sounds like from what you were saying earlier, your way of spending time with your grandad now is to write for him.

Lucia: Exactly, yeah.

Matt: And I love that. That's beautiful.

Lucia: Yeah. That's exactly it.

Matt: Well, it's been great. I've really enjoyed hearing about these and just kind of hearing that thread through all of it. It's always fascinating because you do presume with somebody who plays a version of themself that it's easy to slip into going, "Well, that's..." You know. And so it's just great to hear from you and hear some of the stories behind it. It's been fascinating. Thank you.

Lucia: Thanks for having me.

Ending

Matt: So that was a fun one.

Ella: She's so funny, even when she's not trying.

Matt: I often feel there's like two kinds of comedy. There's one kind of comedy that just bounds up to you like a puppy and is all excited, and you think about things like Vicar of Dibley or whatever, they're just... And then some comedy is like quieter and makes you kind of go to it a little bit, and it felt like that. But it's fascinating hearing her influences from her grandad and the range of stuff they watched. It's so interesting.

Ella: And also that she made the point about writing for her grandad as well, which I thought was so sweet. But then all sort of peppered in with her life experiences like learning to live on her own and deciding to live in the middle of Leicester Square.

Matt: Yeah, like despite not wanting to move to the big city all in one go, then moving to the biggest bit of the busiest city in the country. It's gonna make me super excited to see the next series of Things You Should Have Done and kind of watch it with a slightly new set of eyes in a way. Really enjoyed that.

Ella: Thank you so much to Lucia for being our guest today on Home Again. And if you want to see more from her, you can catch Series 1 and 2 of her fantastic show, Things You Should Have Done, on BBC iPlayer, and look out in the new year for Series 3.

Matt: If you've enjoyed this episode, you can leave us a review or a rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. There's a link in the show notes where you'll also find links to our social channels.

Ella: But for now, I've been Ella.

Matt: I've been Matt.

Ella: And this is Home Again, a podcast brought to you by SpareRoom.

Matt: See you next time.

Ella: Bye.